You may have read our post recently on submission over on @seasideslut ‘s blog.
Because there are two of us, we thought the best way to write a joint post was to interview each other. We had such a great time, covered some important ground (about consent, power and the like) and learned a little more.
In fact, we enjoyed it so much that, after we condensed it into prose, we decided to post the interview as a transcript.
We’d like to do a series but we’d love to hear what you think.
Whimpers: WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE SUBMISSIVE POSITION?
Bangs: Bent over, not being able to see anything.
W: Right, so you’re facing the pillow?
That’s the ulimate submission?
The *ultimate* submission would be not being able to see, not being able to speak, not being able to hear. Basically a paper bag on your head, tied up, hands tied, legs tied. I would not go there. Unless it was with someone I really trusted.
Have you ever wanted to go to that length?
No. Not seriously – maybe done it with, like, a tie or something. But not proper.
And so within the realm of “ordinary sex” – you know, sex that you’ve had.. The bent over, facing the pillow, is that the ultimate submissive position?
So, to the other side, within the realm of the sex you’ve had, the “ordinary sex”, what is the most dominant position.
Me on top
Anything more than that? Have you tied him, have you held his head down, arms down, legs down, covered his face.
Hands on chest, so he can’t get up, but, now that I think about it, it’s not really *that* dominant, because he still has.. He can still move. He just has me sitting on him *chuckles*
And so, back to the submission, have you ever – in being submissive (being taken from behind, face down) – has he ever covered your mouth, covered your eyes – you ever covered your eyes.
No. I’ve had hair pulled, grabbed by the neck, the classic *slap* on the arse, which is fine.
Is that submissive for you?
Yeah, because I’m not in control. I don’t know how hard he’s going to hit me.
I don’t get that hitting-me-on-the-arse thing. It’s happened to me several times and I don’t understand it. I’m just gonna say that. I don’t get it. *Laughs* And I’ve been meaning to ask them, a couple of times “why do you hit me on the bum?
See I like it
I’m OK with it, but my arse doesn’t really jiggle so much, you know.
It’s all about jiggle, and mine doesn’t jiggle.
I find it interesting that when we were talking about Submission before, we automatically (almost) went to positions. What is it about Submission that is tied in with the position?
Let me rephrase this question: are there other ways that you submit, in the act of sex, without it being about the position?
Oh, that’s really hard
That’s what she said *laughs*
So for example, you’re riding him on top, but you’re using other ways in which you’ve submitted, let go of control. I.e you’ve let go of control, being on top
I’m thinking of when you open your legs and he goes down on you. That, for me, is even that first opening of the legs – I think that’s quite submissive, regardless of position. And also the same if you sit on his face.
Do you think sitting on his face is submissive?
No. Absolutely not. [Not for me]
But a lot of my friends have a real problem with anything ‘down there’, they don’t get it. So, I think the act of opening yourself up for *that* is still quite taboo. Amongst my friends anyway. I think that makes me quite submissive.
That surprises me, because I just assume everyone loves it as much as I do
Yeah, I did too. Until I talked to a few people about it.
My god! This is a revelation!
A revolution as well.
Do you feel like an orgasm is submissive?
God that’s a good question. No.
Phew! Although I guess what that would have lead me to ask you: Is withholding [your own] orgasm the ultimate in dominance?
I don’t know if I could do that. I’m not good at that – once I’m going, I’m gone. Is that submissive? I dunno
So, for the reader: I’m a squirter.
I felt like the first time I just let it go, it felt submissive to me. I was like what? My body? I felt TOTALLY out of control.
Now I’m not there [so out of [control], but the first time felt submissive, shameful, I felt like I was pissing all over the place and I had no control over it. My boyfriend at the time didn’t really understand either. I was young.
Now, if that *doesn’t* happen, I’m like ‘get out of my bed’. [Laughs]
Well, not that full-on. But most of the sex I’ve had for the last couple of years, that’s what it’s been like. And if it doesn’t, there’s usually a good reason for it.
But in the act of doing that (you don’t have any control over that or not), do you feel like, once you’ve done it it’s more submissive.
Well, no not anymore. But the first time it happened…
That’s why I asked. Because there is a certain level of submission to the act and submission to your own body. Not submissive to him, but submission to something that’s out of your control. I think I know what triggers it now and I can let go to it, which means its less submissive, but there is something about it that is.
Bangs: What’s your definition of submission
Whimpers: Yeah, I’m going to go with the one you said: the relinquishing of control and what’s implied is that there is a control that you have, that you actively relinquish (in the process). To separate it from an abusive sense of disempowerment or oppression, or overpowering. It’s the act of relinquishing control, rather than a total lack of power.
B: Do you think that’s agreed before you enter into something? If it’s with someone new, how do you know who you’re going to be?
Do you mean how do I know whether that’s the same definition of submission that person has, or..
That as well. But how do you know how you’re going to be before you get into bed with someone.
You don’t. That’s why you get into bed with someone, right?
Like, I don’t change wildly. I have some pretty standard ideas about what lengths I willing to go to – what I’m not willing to do or am willing to do.
What I’m not willing to do with certain people can become what I’m willing to do with that same person over time, as they become a sexual partner (rather than a stranger)
So what’s your position of ultimate submission.
Ultimate submission (which is not one that I’m interested in) would be still – lying flat, on the bed, still. So – no responses. Just lying there and being fucked. Star fish, victorian wife. A hole.
So, no constraints
That’s really interesting, because I’d said all of the constraints.
So what’s the position of submission between your ‘usual range’.
Within what I would go to, is, doggy style, I guess. But, also, after thinking about what you said, I guess being eaten out is a position of submission.
What’s the position of dominance in your usual range?
Like you, me on top.
How would you submit in other ways (not by submission)?
It’s like I was telling you that story – being in a dominant position, allowing him to play with me so that it elevated my senses and brought me to the kind of orgasm I’d never had before. I didn’t like it in the first place, but eventually..
Like, so many times I would be like ‘get your hands out of there..’.
Do you think that’s because when you are in that position (in both senses of the word), you are being dominant, he is the submissive one. But he has regained dominance by literally hitting the button – hitting the remote control so that you are not in control again. But then that’s almost like the ideal scenario.
W: On one level it is the ideal scenario. Perhaps for both – because then he gets to submit and has all the pleasure of that submissive position for him, but then also gets to hit the button and be in control. And both of us get to.
Why do you think actual position is so tied up with (ha! -Ed), dominance and submission.
Yeah, don’t know.
Because we started talking about that straight away. Is it because we’re visual people and we immediately think ‘that’s what I think is that’? Or do you think it’s because of our experiences. Or do you think that, if we did a poll of everybody in this restaurant now (which we’re not going to do)
… Would they say the same thing?
I don’t know – mostly because I haven’t really spoken (about this) with anyone else. But there is a part of me that wonders whether, as women (of a particular), our sex education was primarily about position. And it’s only now that I have, as an adult, am having conversations about preference, etc. that expands the definition of power in relationships.
And also, my sexual relationships have changed and matured. So that there’s the room to talk about these things. So I don’t know whether everybody would have this.
For example, there’s a gay male couple opposite us, their understanding (i.e.: experience) of dominance and submission would be quite different to ours. Based on gender and sexual orientation. Even though, one of them is probably the same age as one of us at least.
I think that’s why. And also because, in terms of pop culture, talking about sex is often done in terms of position – *goes on rant about Cosmo* – edited.
So is submission or dominance fixed in a sexual relationship, or, as we just said, it’s the best kind of relationship one where you can flick between both (literally – ha!).
Look, it depends on the relationship outside the sexual partnership. So, I think the ultimate is that it’s not fixed and I think that’s enabled with an equality within the relationship as well.
But if you have a (long term) relationship in which the man is predominantly dominating then perhaps the sexual relationship through which a woman can gain some dominance and so it might be skewed as a way to balance the other. And vice versa.
How do you mentally submit?
I think sometimes it depends on the partner you’re with. There are sometimes when I can physically submit to a person and mentally be like ‘nope.’. And I have had experience of doing the reverse. Being mentally well into that person and what they have to say, and physically ‘nope’. Which is weird. That feels more of a betrayal (to me) than the other. But mentally submitting..
Is it dangerous?
I don’t know.. I had a friend who was a slave in a slave/dom relationship and it went sour and it fucked her up big time. So I think so. It feels dangerous to me.
I think it feels dangerous to me also. I think I’m the kind of personality that I could totally fuck up everything in my life apart from that. Because I could just go ‘yeah, alright’.
I think I did do that with my last relationship but it’s a definitely around the lines of a relationship, rather than casual sexual partners or fuck buddies or whatever. It’s of the realm of intimacy. Using the example of my friend’s slave/dom relationship it’s *agreed*.
That’s the thing isn’t it.
It has to be agreed.
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s particularly ‘sexual’ for me, though. In fact, given the type of person I am, I would say that it’s a turn off. To have a guy mentally trying to overpower me in a (especially casual) sexual relationship, I would be like ‘get your goddamn hands off me’
I think I’m the same.
THERE’S A QUESTION MISSING HERE.
Is that owned?
Submission really is a process of possessing control and consensually giving it away, rather than having it overpowered, or not possessing it in the first place.
I already said this, but am super turned on by a sexual engagement – doesn’t matter, short term, long term, in which power is shared and flipped. And the more times I’m flipped around in sex (power and physically) the better the fucking sex is. That’s a real moment. And man who can be vulnerable and then back it up by being like ‘i see you – now, bam, take this’. But having both. Without the reciprocation is not sexy.